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Rules for Nam events


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#1 Target

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Posted 26 October 2009 - 07:46 PM

Hi guys, as we talked about it on the day, can I have your thoughts on the rules?

These were disigned to give the best experience for Nam based on films I had seen (many of them) and how airsoft works.

Be as honest as you like as long as its constructive;)



#2 Ninja Mole

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Posted 26 October 2009 - 07:58 PM

my main comments are on the support gunners rules.

Firing while emplaced is a good aim, but not very tenable in a lot of the tuddenham site. We have to remember that in airsoft, bushes can be considered hard cover and in a lot of situations I wouldn't have a viable shot if I whapped the gun out on it's bipod.

I'd suggest that support gunners be allowed to fire from a kneeling position as well as emplaced. I agree that they shouldn't be able to fire from the hip as that would unbalance the game badly. Everyone else on 20-30 round mags and the support gunner with 2000 rounds to lash out. using a team mates shoulder should also be acceptable. This should limit support gunners to their actual role as suppressors, preventing them being glorified assault rifles.

The other comment I have is wrt. Ammo limits and reloading. The ammo limit of 2000rounds is sensible, but for some of us who only own one box magazine, which doesn't hold 2000rounds, then ammo limitations could be irritating. It's a bit unfair for those of us who can't spend a fortune on the game.

I'd suggest that if a support gunner is limited to 2000 rounds then he can reload his magazine in the fields AS LONG AS the total ammo loaded, before going and reloading at an ammo crate, is 2000 rounds. In my case I'd stick 1200 in the magazine and have 800 left to reload in the field. Then I'd have to go and re-stock at an ammo crate.

It's easy to do, just measure out bags of 2000 rounds which you use to reload at an ammo crate. What's left in the bag can be loaded out in the field. It shouldn't unbalance anything as most box magazine take a little while to reload.

anyway, that's my two pennies worth. Comments?
"Morale seems good, considering. But that will only last as long as the ammunition holds out. Although high spirits are just no substitute for eight hundred rounds a minute, but I don't think that's what you wanted to hear."

#3 Guest_Staceh_*

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Posted 26 October 2009 - 08:05 PM

I would add to that, the spare rounds that the box cannot carry has to be carried by another member of the squad. (hence all the 7.62 belts you see draped around grunts in 'nam stuff)

#4 Ninja Mole

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Posted 26 October 2009 - 08:21 PM

i'd go with that. I rather liked the norwich realsim game where I had 200 rounds in the box, 200 rounds on me, and every myrmidon had 200 rounds for me.

although those with boxes big enough for the 2000 rounds then get a significant advantage
"Morale seems good, considering. But that will only last as long as the ammunition holds out. Although high spirits are just no substitute for eight hundred rounds a minute, but I don't think that's what you wanted to hear."

#5 Marc

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Posted 26 October 2009 - 09:15 PM

Well support guns are best used for suppersion or cover fire as this helps your team to move in for attack, firing from the knee is good.

200 rounds in alot of box mag will give no ammo to be used in that weapon as Inokatsu m60's use 200 just in the feed tude & mag.

Marc
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#6 adrianlap

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Posted 26 October 2009 - 10:06 PM

Realism....using 200 rounds for support gunners sounds nice....sounds real and I'm all for realism...but, we are not using 7.62..at ranges of 300 meters and above...we are using 0.20 at 30-40 meters, please remember that.

The way i see it, is in the real world....you wouldn't charge an MG42, at 20 rounds a sec.....so.....what do ya do.....you find away around it.
Look to your platoon leaders...thats what they are there for, its there job to sort it out.

RTO Lazy Co



#7 adrianlap

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Posted 26 October 2009 - 10:25 PM

P.S

May i also just say....that in the real world..the enemy may well out gun you, out range you, have better intelligence than you and better weapons.

you don't just.....go home!.

RTO Lazy Co.

#8 Guest_Staceh_*

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Posted 27 October 2009 - 02:20 AM

You don't?

Blimey.

Lets get this thread back on track smile.gif

#9 Target

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Posted 27 October 2009 - 10:15 AM

I agree whole heartily with the support gunner fireing from a knelt position and will add it! 2000rnds will remain the limit, Ill adjust the 3000rnds down!

Ammo in bags is a hard one and one i will never be happy with, but I hear what your saying about needing more mags. Can the 249s take an M4 mag? if so, can we not make the rest of the rounds up in High caps?

Im thinking of making more high cap mags for the 30cal as it needs 2 guys to run it. One firing and one winding. Felt like having a guys feeding the belt...loved it!!!


more thoughts?

#10 Marc

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Posted 27 October 2009 - 10:23 AM

A CA M249 can take m16/m4 mags.

I have 2 Inokatsu box mags was thinking of putting a 1000 rounds in each and doing a reload in the field with 7.62 ammo to, hope this will make it abit more realism to a MG.
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#11 Ninja Mole

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Posted 27 October 2009 - 10:48 AM

btw, my references to the 200 round limit at the reasim wasn't a suggestion for 'nam.

as Marc said the CA249 can take m4 mags, but only the nice expensive CA ones.....

I've used hi-caps in the 249 before and I wasn't very happy with them as they had a tendency to unwind as I rammed them home (then you get rinsed). CA Mid-caps work fine, but If I was going to buy enough mags for the remaining 800 rounds I can't put in the box, then I'd might as well buy another box, as it would be cheaper.

wrt: ammo in bags, as soon as you impose a limit like 2000 rounds then we have to count out and bag up the ammo anyway, it's not like you can just rely on a number of clicks of a speedloader, or that the mag only holds the right amount. My CA box mag holds 1200 rounds, the bigger box takes 2400 rounds and IIRC the M60 boxes take 4000 rounds. no matter what, you're counting out BBs into bags for reloading, whether at an ammo box or in the field.


"Morale seems good, considering. But that will only last as long as the ammunition holds out. Although high spirits are just no substitute for eight hundred rounds a minute, but I don't think that's what you wanted to hear."

#12 Marc

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Posted 27 October 2009 - 11:04 AM

I would allso like to add that a good hand wave goes a long way to help to see if some 1 is hit because after having a gearbox in my ear going all day i dont tend to hear poeple all the time.
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#13 Target

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Posted 27 October 2009 - 12:02 PM

Then it sounds like bagging (no pun intended) up your rounds is the way forward for support gunners ONLY!!

Also to be fair the limits as with all filmsim is an UP TOO limit so if your a few short (not 800) lol tough!!

Ninja mole...if you need a few mid caps I have loads going cheep.



#14 Tiger Force Recon 1/327

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Posted 27 October 2009 - 03:51 PM

Form a historical point for view the M60 Gunner in nam would carry upto 600rnd in belted link with other members of the squad carrying and addtional 100 to 200 round belt or ammo tin. (Would work for modern day too)...

You could therefore have the additional ammo for your support gun spread out through out the team. And they would be required to bring the ammo to feed the piggy with the MG to the gunners posistion. Also if a player is hit and out and just happens to be the only source of spare ammo it would make for some interesting outcomes.

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101st Rangers - Vietnam Webpage

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Are you quitting on me? Well, are you? Then quit, you slimy f**king walrus-looking piece of sh*t. Get the f**k off of my obstacle. Get the f**k down off of my obstacle. Now. Move it. I'm going to rip your balls off, so you cannot contaminate the rest of the world. I will motivate you, Private Pyle, if it short-dicks every cannibal on the Congo.


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QUOTE
Pvt. Roly Collins: What's going on, Pat?
Pvt. Pat Cleary: [sarcastically] It's the great war - it's in all the papers.

#15 Nothim

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Posted 27 October 2009 - 09:34 PM

I think the rules for the Support Gunners are good, but I think as part of this the "real steel" ammo limits have to be kept for the normal AEGs.

This should add to the "Oh my god were being over run by hundreds of VC, and Im running out of ammo" feeling, but should also make sure that the Support gunners really have a worthwhile role; by being the only weapons that can put down large amounts of sustained fire.

This should also hopefully add to the squad dynamic, where the MG provides the firepower and the rest of the squad have to support and look after the gunner i.e carrying bags (links of 7.62) of BBs.


Mark

#16 Tiger Force Recon 1/327

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Posted 28 October 2009 - 08:41 AM

Sorry I was not suggesting you use real steal ammo limits for the support guns. But agreeing with the fact that if your allowed 2k rounds and can only fit 1200 in your gun then the spare should be distributed throughout the squad.

L Company Rangers 75th Inf. 101st ABN Re-enactment Group
101st Rangers - Vietnam Webpage

QUOTE
Are you quitting on me? Well, are you? Then quit, you slimy f**king walrus-looking piece of sh*t. Get the f**k off of my obstacle. Get the f**k down off of my obstacle. Now. Move it. I'm going to rip your balls off, so you cannot contaminate the rest of the world. I will motivate you, Private Pyle, if it short-dicks every cannibal on the Congo.


ANZACS
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Pvt. Roly Collins: What's going on, Pat?
Pvt. Pat Cleary: [sarcastically] It's the great war - it's in all the papers.

#17 Marc

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Posted 28 October 2009 - 08:50 AM

Could we allso have at least 1 grenade pls like the med. As all members of a fireteam would have some.
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#18 Iceman5x5

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Posted 28 October 2009 - 07:53 PM

Hi Josh,

I've been thinking about this over the past few days and just wanted to say a word about the Fire support with the artillery and air support ideas we discussed first.

I think you've got the howitzer support rules working very well, distance of six squares for the gun to fire was working great and the kill area of one square did work, but if an area is hit everything in that area is also gone, so for example when we fired onto the .30cal postion on Saturday the VC+.30cal+intelligence+spider hole should have all been taken out. Risk of the US losing the intel vs taking out a threat such as the .30cal + spider hole.

For the Airsupport idea this could be limited per day/half day which allows you to hit any grid on the map but due to the large area of effect with the airsupport two-three squares should be used for damage. This would also show another powerful tool in the US arsenal which was used during the war.

On the support gunners side ammo limits can be changed I think with additional (belts) ammo carried by other members of the squad. Only thing I would add though is that deployed can also include where the weapon is braced as well, other then that the rules worked on the weekend with no real problems, just need the VC/NVA to have a few other Machine guns as well if we can smile.gif

Radio's and the protocols we set up with Ady&John worked great and added a real atmosphere to the days, so no problems there.

Can't think of anything else at the moment but I'll let you know.
Lazy Co, Rangers Lead the way!


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#19 Jonny

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Posted 29 October 2009 - 01:45 PM

QUOTE (Iceman5x5 @ Oct 28 2009, 07:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I think you've got the howitzer support rules working very well, distance of six squares for the gun to fire was working great and the kill area of one square did work, but if an area is hit everything in that area is also gone, so for example when we fired onto the .30cal postion on Saturday the VC+.30cal+intelligence+spider hole should have all been taken out. Risk of the US losing the intel vs taking out a threat such as the .30cal + spider hole.



only issue i can see with that is when you start saying things like shell scrape are out of play, how do you comunicate that to everyone on the field? if say, lazy co. call in an arty strike and wipe a position of the map, how then do you let every other grunt out their know that they cannot use that position? chances are, when the bbs start flying, people are guna jump into every available cover, what happens when said cover was 'destroyed' by an arty strike that you heard but not saw the impact? just dont see that working very well im afraid.

also, losing something like the .30 cal i dont see either. effectively its the same as an m60 (same calibre, same role as a man portable, TWO man light machine gun) so really its no different from the m60s. bit difficult cos if you told one of your guys, sorry dude you can use your lovely m60 anymore, just got blown up, im sure they would be a bit miffed?

either way, if the square is destroyed by arty, like as not the people manning the .30 would pick it up and head for respawn anyway, so to all intents and purposes that position is clear


just my thoughts anyway

#20 Iceman5x5

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Posted 29 October 2009 - 06:02 PM

Hi jonny,

Yeah good points mate, I was only coming from the angle that in this situation the 30 cal was a fixed postion so when we hit the target area it was out of commission, Mark still hit us with it which we had no problem with but until Josh called in to say we could use the 30 cal we had just left it as dead, thinking it was taken out in the arttie hit.

Not an easy one to work like you said but just my idea on how devastating these sort of support fire could be if used correctly smile.gif

In truth if I left my Inakatsu M60 on the hill and it was hit by arttie strike then I would cry as my lovely weapon was no more - then not used it for the rest of the mission due to my own stupidity smile.gif but that's me and my Role-playing side making it more intreasting.

Some thing to think about anyway.


Paul

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