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'La Cortina' input


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#1 Doc Brown

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Posted 30 September 2013 - 09:08 PM

Ok so some of you ventured to the outlaw town of 'La Cortina' this weekend and will have seen where we are at with it. The real world population is 10 though I think it's closer to 18 characters in game. Anyway as it stands we have 'La Costa' for a cup of coffee and with its illegal still your applejack as well, we have potentially an reinstated bank 'in game ' that might be able to act as a land registry (game dynamic permitting) and a pinkertons office with holding cell. It's my intention to have at least 3 more structures built before the next game finances and time permitting, my question is what should they be?
I'm thinking the town needs an illegal gunsmiths which could sell ammo or forged gun licenses etc, maybe a gunsmith to actually repair guns. Secondly I think farriers or barbers as a shoe'd horse could then speed up transportation of goods or enable miners to mine quicker reducing the time required to extract gold by half, maybe enable double the amount to be mined etc (your thoughts please)I also think this would mean characters would have to travel between the two towns if they wanted to increase productivity but as it's an outlaw town so you might make more money but risk getting robbed etc etc...
Or a barbers on the other hand would be a good place for info to trade, get a shave or a warm wash maybe... (Your thoughts again)
The last building I'd like as a dual purpose photographers all set dressed with the dslr all boxed up and a flash powder flash and also an undertakers where you can pre order coffins

There is room for another building on top as well but without a clear definition there isn't a point in building one, I thought maybe a church or doctors office or and I don't know what.


The town needs a doctor as I can't do it and all the other odds and sods so even a locomb would help. If you have any ideas whilst I'm still planning let me know or if you need something built I will check the funds and see what I can do.


Over to you now for ideas and thoughts please

Kind regards
Doc emmet brown

#2 Wladek

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Posted 30 September 2013 - 10:05 PM

I think it needs to get its trade consumables via the town. The town has traders who have, and have worked for, the contacts and freight businesses to get the neccessities into the desolate regions. What Cortina offers should be services at an inflated price, as it lacks the 'legaility and stability' to otherwise provide them.

It shoudln't get to calculate any 'other population' into any of it's trade based uncome, unless a 'Bandit' population is calculated in relation to lawlessness via plot lines.

Land registry makes little sense.


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#3 Doc Brown

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Posted 30 September 2013 - 10:25 PM

Fair point well made,

The way i saw 'la cortina' was that the town came about because of the gold it sat on hence the mine entrance it now has, when the mine was all tapped out the majority of residents left so the bandits moved in, but not all of the residents are themselves bandits, the light coated pinkertons do their thing, there are some other more unsavoury types that do what they do, we have the pig and sheep pens that will provide bacon and lamb(kebabs), and as an outlaw town we can also get outlawed things such as moonshine, guns and the like through. The town itself would need some form of trading as without it the bandits and outlaws would be continually robbing for food etc so some legitimacy would be required, the added benifit is that the 'springs' needs to import its coffee, food, and alcohol from somewhere, is there nowhere in the dynamic that would allow this cross trading of goods? It is true that the bandits run the town but with the majority of old westerns I watched in my youth the towns themselves were always a number of oppressed traders,farmers etc and a small number of bandits that continually tormented the towns folk. There is honesty within 'la cortina' you just have to look for it.

#4 Wladek

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Posted 30 September 2013 - 11:04 PM

hmm, thing is there are traders and freight which do import coffee, whiskey, foodstuffs etc, from out of town. Foodstuffs - once someone built a farm - furs and Gold/Silver being exported out of town.

 

The game was just about to begin getting a working economy - which it has previously tried to do but not succeeded - which you cannot do entirely around players and consumption with the smaller number of players/geography.

 

For example a trader has the contacts and capital to get in bulk somewhing such as coffee to enable thenm to get it transported to an area where there is no coffee. Thus they can supply establishments that sell coffee, them being able to do this because the populace cannot nib to bolivia for a morning cuppa.

 

The description of the town is what a town is, it just sounds like Shingle Springs, begging the question "why is there two", somewhat.

 

I assume cortina is designed to be a more lawless town than Shingle Springs, where there can be gunfights during the day, and a place where those who want to walk a more outlaw-y path would be based, yet allowing them to to have a place to socialise, get supplies, or just have a rest without having to 'break character' and go into town?

 

I mean there is a way to make a trade dynamic work, and it could be a very interesting one, just knowing what is wanted from Cortina would be nice.


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#5 Yankee Mike

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Posted 30 September 2013 - 11:20 PM

I may be available for doctoring services if required on a locum basis to start with.
Corporal Hancock: Sir.
[Offers mug of tea]

Major General Urquhart: Hancock. I've got lunatics laughing at me from the woods. My original plan has been scuppered now that the jeeps haven't arrived. My communications are completely broken down. Do you really believe any of that can be helped by a cup of tea?

Corporal Hancock: Couldn't hurt, sir.

#6 Doc Brown

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 05:11 AM

It was never the intention to create issues with shingle springs economy rather to have a town that can be played through, not competition for shingle springs but more of a more dangerous version, a place you can stir up trouble or rob, prices would be high but as it would also be where we would also be sleeping it need some reason to stay in character. Plus how cool would it be if you had say a gunsmiths to rob or even a safe to blow up. Injuns would be welcome

#7 Target

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 06:29 AM

I'll work an economy and rules for cortina by next event, I think your ideas for Cortina are the same as mine steve and I'll make sure what it can't do is un-stabilise the game mechanics. I love the idea of a place I game all game and will make sure the economy between the two is controlled. I have decided to run with one admin 'bank' but another in game bank with a safe is totally cool.

#8 Doc Brown

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 08:15 AM

Sounds cool if you could,

It has never been the intention to push the biff tannen into the manure cart, none of the cortinains intend on this to help them get their $10,000 to win as it were more as a way for the town to provide depth and colour to the story, having the pig pens means bacon for breakfast and coffee, the characters can exist throughout the weekend and I even intend in making a shell for the portapotty to create an outhouse. The towns existence should not impact the finances of the game or flood the market with cash but it can be used in such a way that it adds to the story with things like rather than bounties being handed out but contracts to hitmen on characters that maybe don't travel too much, making mr parish less safe as it were (sorry mr parish). I see la cortina as a slightly less welcoming place than shingle springs with higher prices but as it's in play more active. The reason I fancy a farriers is that I can get horse shoes, maybe saddles and bridles for game weekends and it needs to work as I don't fancy building too much just for the sake of it but more for a function. A few of us want to just build and finances permitting ( the cortinains all chipped in on the materials we purchased) we would like to build more, the pics that Steve mcbride took in the town look awesome and with a full street would look even better.
The town isn't just for flying lead but as it's not commonly in play so it can be laid out more like a western town and each structure needs to be strong and tough as it will look so cool in the winter under snow. Everyone creates the story and that's what makes the game awesome, we don't want to affect the trade in town but competition is always good and it's my hope that the new old town can add to it.

Ultimately though it is run by the towns folk it is still run by gunman and anything that effects the dynamic will be controlled so it's both an outlaw town but has strict controls over what it can and can't do. I'd like it to function as an asset to the story but obviously with the civil war cannons and hopefully a Gatling gun of its own it won't be a soft objective if you get my drift.

I think mr parish and I will have some form of disguised technology so we can keep in contact with the goings on and gunman can then introduce factors, hopefully not famin to create the desired effect within the story. Don't get me wrong we are ultimately outlaws but with a safe to rob, and goods to steal coffee in town might get cheaper. The hooch from the still won't be just for personal consumption and the spittoons will be regularly emptied.

I'm ultimately guided by what you all think and only hope the benifit of 'La Cortina' exceeds the negatives

#9 dieselmonkey

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 08:58 AM

I think mr parish and I will have some form of disguised technology so we can keep in contact with the goings on 

 

Just for reference, telephones were in use along rail lines by that point, so you could actually run a field telephone set between the two settlements. If you hired a couple of engineers to do it, they could even set it up in-game. Not sure what the distance is between the two camps, but a roll of D10 is usually a few hundred metres for about £30 or so. 

 

You could even run it into the telegraph office, and offer communication between the camps as a 'service' to players, or even the relaying of telegrams. 

 

Just a thought. 



#10 Four Leaf

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 09:29 AM

I always thought Cortina would be a lawless town, a town where the people that didn't want to pay taxes and pay to carry guns, a place where anyone could buy dynamite in order to sell it on for a profit to a miner, you know, stuff like that. I like the idea of the fake weapon permits. 

 

Something that has come to me after reading over the rules and from what has been written above, I think we need to make more of the trade side of the game. I for one will honestly say I've not bought a bandage from the general store since the first game, as I bring my own so the thought doesn't occur to me to do so.

 

Ammo, well we bought a few boxes and we are down to the last few so next game we will be buying more I reckon.

 

BUT, it would be nice to see more regular supply runs happening. EG, the camp brings coffee in, so lets have a supply run for that. The camp brings food stuffs in, lets have a supply run for that. The town is now paying taxes to the federal government, well lets have that as something that happens at the end of play on the Sunday perhaps ? I think it would just lend a bit more to the feeling that we have a working, living, breathing camp. 

 

It would give the people playing as free agents some work, helping with the supply run, or anyone wanting to play as a bandit would have supply trains to target. I know a lack of people has hampered the game in the past, but I feel it would help if we could get some of these supply trains rolling.

 

Then Cortina can be a base of operations for some less scrupulous people as well as those that dont want to live under the banner of Shingle Springs.   


It will take less bullets to kill him now than if we wait for him to turn into a zombie.

The elderly. They seem nice enough, but can they really be trusted ?

#11 Lardassmonkey

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 10:24 AM

I know I haven't seen La Cortina (LC)up and running but I envisioned it as a lawless town/camp without the rules or safety of Single Springs(SS). A place where you can get what you want no questions asked, for a price. I see it as a subsiduary to SS as that is the main hub of the area through which all legitimate trade should run. LC is perhaps more of a trading post than a true town. Out on the fringes, more welcoming to those less civilised but at a higher price and offering a measure of safety in the wilds but lacking true security.

 

In terms of buildings/businesses well any legitimate businessman would do the senisible thing and set up in SS. Things like farriers, barbers and photographers should go to the town as they would be better suited to there where it is safe and the supply routes more guaranteed.

 

LC should have things that provide services to those that are not welcome in SS or else cannot be found there at all. Things like these:

 

A 'bank' that is not guaranteed by the likes of Mr Paris so you take the risk of keeping your money there if you want to stay discreet. One that doesn't ask any questions but expects you to pay for the privilage.

A bar that has no rules, where the prices are high and the murder rate even higher but you can find any man for any job you need.

A gunsmiths that can get you whatever weapon you want, permit or not. Just don't get caught.

A trader who will get you what ever you're looking for, at the right price. Again, no questions asked.

 

I agree with 4L on the trading front completely. We need to build on it so we have supply runs going all the time and goods being constantly traded. Really everything we use in game should be bought in game, from food to guns, clothes to construction equipment. The traders/shippers should be the ones raking it in but at the moment the limited trade I'm sure makes it difficult for them.



#12 Wladek

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 11:20 AM

Yes, Cortina should be a place to go without questions being asked, if you have to have a meeting that you would rather not be witnessed, or need to find the more unsavory element, then you can head up there.

 

I mean most of the 'legitimate' businesses also keep 'two sets of books', and even in Springs the right thing can be had for the right price, but to have a place where those who are not well known enough to, or feel uncomfortable to, broach such dealings in the town is a good idea.

 

Irish is right, such things as a Barbers/Farriers etc should be in Springs, not Cortina, as that is where they would locate.

 

Cortina should not be a 'producer' of things, but a net importer of things. Cortina actually needs the town and its trade routes to function.


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#13 Doc Brown

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 12:06 PM

Agreed, though a certain amount of self sustainability is needed or otherwise no shipments would reach SS resulting in a miserable weekend for townsfolk as starvation sets in, without farm etc in game it makes cultivating crops or livestock a fictional commodity, the only way to get round this is to work on the assumption that there are such places between the 2 towns and the towns themselves pay an up keep on Sundays from there profits if any, if non are made then next time the fee is doubled.
I'm still trying to get my head round how this game works. until the numbers agate in the hundreds then assumption and maths seems to be the only way it works. SS obviously ships it's alcohol in but LC produces moonshine from its raw produce ( this would be weather dependant so frost etc will effect its quantity and therefore price) weaponry would be taken from the dead but seeing as no one in there right mind would hand over there tanaka pistol then maybe I'll make a collection of interesting guns and 'assume' they have been captured to start with, in the event you are killed then your weapons become void and the killer gets a token to bring to the pawn shop in exchange for money, the dead player can them buy this token back to reinstate their weapon. Just a thought.

#14 Lardassmonkey

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 01:47 PM

I don't think there is any need to make assumptions on farming taking place as you can't farm everywhere. We are in wooded country where the main incomes are related to that or mining. The majority of food would therefore have to be imported, with perhaps the exception of meat from hunting.

 

The resources we have to offer the outside world are the out put of the mines (only really gold at present but there is the possibilty of others), timber and pelts. The land itself is also valuable with the railroad wanting to pass through. As such all trade should then be based off these key industries as they generate the initial wealth that is then spread around through various means. There are of course fringe industries capable of generating their own wealth, such as the afformentioned game hunting or the still but these are relatively minor in comparison. Materials like iron or stone mined for use in construction & ironmongary could come under this as well in the sense that they are used in camp and not exported.

 

Everything else should have to be imported through the importers/traders and then sold on once in town. That gives a flow of materials into the town (that can be robbed and therefore need protecting), cash to the importers and traders and ultimately goods for the end user to spend their hard earned wages on.

Weapons, or at least fire arms would mainly fall into this catergory. To acquire a new weapon in game you would have to import it first before you could get it.

 

There is the potential for stealing weapons by using a card system as used in wastelander that is similar to what you suggest; you take the card not the weapon. This can then be traded for an equivialant weapon or money. Such a shop would obviously have to be located at LC to avoid being busted in about 30 seconds. In wastelander there are rental weapons or people have their own spare weapons behind the counter ready to be bought. In lead the lack of suitable weapons (and the fact people start with the best they have due to a different start up system/economy) means just offering cash would be the best option. The person who is robbed then 'loses' their weapon until it can be recovered or another bought to replace it.



#15 dieselmonkey

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 02:16 PM

As far as meat goes, I'd suggest it'd be another trade good that could come from the Blackfoot, as that would make sense, be another reason not to just pile in and wipe out the natives, and give more reason to visit our encampment. We didn't have anyone come visit all weekend to attempt to buy furs off us, so we headed over to SS in the end to sell some on. 

 

There needs to be a bit more thought put into the economy I think. SS should be where most people go for legitimate, imported goods, LC for underhand items such as illegal firearms, and the BF tribe for food, pelts and water

 

I quite like the idea of using the wastelander token system for stealing player guns, and also for bringing new, personal weapons into the game. obviously, weapons you don't have a permit for could only be sold in LC, and for a fraction of their value. If the player it was stolen from pulled a black card and was back in the game, they'd probably have to go to LC to buy back their gun. 



#16 Target

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 03:12 PM

I have no probs with 'pigs' at Cortina though;) for food or for...getting rid of problems!



#17 Wladek

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 03:16 PM


There needs to be a bit more thought put into the economy I think. SS should be where most people go for legitimate, imported goods, LC for underhand items such as illegal firearms, and the BF tribe for food, pelts and water

 

Don't forget someone made a deal for the pelts - or does that knifey palm cutting mean nothing to you folks ;)

 

However in general, yes, the principles espoused by Irish are right. The trick has always been making it work. In short you need to have a mathematically calculated "Other" population for the end result.

 

My example of how the most basic should work is, say, Whisky:

 

OK, I have to sell the Whisky in the Bar. From those sales I have to be able to pay myself, those who work in the bar (try and imagine what you think would be a reasonable in-game wage to actually work once everyone else has settled down for an evening... Thankfully I have good friends and we can enjoy doing just that) and I have to buy in the next supply of Whisky from the trader.

 

The amount I pay the trader he has to cover what he makes, what he pays his contacts for the whisky supply, and what he negotiates with the Freight delivery to get it here.

 

The amount the freight man is paid has to cover what he makes, and the hiring of any hired guards for the delivery.

 

All of these also have an 'other' factor, all the businesses are constantly having to fork out for 'other', either plot based or in internal based.

 

If you just use the in game players as the basis of the economy there just simply is not enough, there is also no need there to drive it no player needs anything. We were just establishing the 'population', just about to get some kind of working economy sorted.

 

The irony is I entered the big stakes poker game with no intention or desire to win. When it came down to me and Baxter, and I saw the writing on the wall my brain did register as "Bugger. If I had won then then I could have just said 'OK. Made now. I can crew and design/run the economy'" lol


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#18 Wladek

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 03:29 PM

I have no probs with 'pigs' at Cortina though;) for food or for...getting rid of problems!

 

But surely it makes more sense to have such disposal in a place where murder actually is a problem? In Springs you do need to dispose of bodies, in Cortina you do not.


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#19 Doc Brown

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 03:42 PM

Ok diesel this is making more sense, so we would need to obtain pelts and meats from you guys but could exchange weapons or cash for them whereas in ss your trades are for money. The livestock we have at LC is purely for local consumption of the store owner and not for sale to others. The gunsmiths can trade in illegal guns/ knives etc..... Wow how do you guys do it, my heads spinning from the simplest questions.

It all sounds more than workable

#20 Doc Brown

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 03:42 PM

Ok diesel this is making more sense, so we would need to obtain pelts and meats from you guys but could exchange weapons or cash for them whereas in ss your trades are for money. The livestock we have at LC is purely for local consumption of the store owner and not for sale to others. The gunsmiths can trade in illegal guns/ knives etc..... Wow how do you guys do it, my heads spinning from the simplest questions.

It all sounds more than workable




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