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'La Cortina' input


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#21 Lardassmonkey

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 04:57 PM

I see no reason why any business can't earn a set amount from just being open to account for these 'others'. We sort of do that already with the mines in the sense that we earn money from phantom miners underground cost free. Any real players working the mines are essentially foremen for these phantoms.

 

 

The amount earned can perhaps be determined by a set worth per player times by the population at an event. So say the saloon earns $10 per player and there are 30 players at an event you earn $300 effort free. That is very simplified of course as it doesn't account for any costs but perhaps simple is the best option for such things.



#22 Wladek

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 06:19 PM

we chatted with the banker, at the moment it is calculated as a multiplier of takings relating to the 'population' of the area, with a larger spreadsheet being constructed.


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#23 CHThree

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 06:56 PM

Yes, I wouldn't mind earning a bit more than a few dollars for pulling slugs out of miners and taking care of Mayor's Pyles....  sorry...taking care of Mayor Pyles little irritating condition.  And that reminds me, I owe the trader for 3 bandages.

 

A rate for business earnings could be determined that took costs in to account, just the profit rather than the turnover but the costs tend to go to other businesses in the camp so they may need to be worked out somewhere in the background so it is sensible. 

 

One thing about bandits:  they're bandits.   They are not farmers.   They didn't go in to banditry so they could mind pigs or shave faces or straighten gun sights.   They're tough hombres who don't like to "work" for a living like the rest of us.    The price they pay for this is while staying out of jail is living in a shit hole in the woods with no amenities save a fire and a roof if they're lucky and having to and shave with a bowie knife, if they shave at all.  Meat they will have to steal / buy from traders in the town, natives, or just hunt for it. If someone is willing to run whisky up to La Cortina they will probably have to pay a premium.  Free home made whisky? -  they need grain to distill (peyote does not grow this far north ;-) ) - it will need to be stolen or bought.  If they have a "town" wouldn't it be most likely run by someone as a dictatorship with all the bandits either working for the head honcho or at least having to pay him a cut of their robbin's for the privelage of staying there? Even in the most "lawless" of town someone will take over and impose their rule, which means there are, well, rules. Even if the rule is "look me in the ye and I'll have johnnie here slit yoer throat..."


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#24 Doc Brown

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 01:14 AM

Whilst I understand some of the points made I'm not sure I fully agree, and with the numerous phone calls I have received today I'm beginning to see the history of flying lead and what it is today (which is awesome fun), my understanding is when it moved and became SS it too was a lawless town, with everyone having the freedom to step up and say I want to be mayor or Marshall etc, as a group you decided this was fine and moved on with the story, with the only conflicts in town being verbal or devious trades, now there are 3 locations, SS, the awesome injuns and now LC. This means more to visit and more to do which is a positive all round. SS is great but will always for both safety and security reasons be in character but never in play, if someone came along and said they were a Texas ranger or alike they are treated as an addition to the once lawless town. The advantage of LC is that all are welcome but if someone were to attempt to bring law and order to the town I'm sure the so called 'bandits' would probably just shoot that person and hang them outside town as an example. As I see it, the bandits don't live in the town itself ( there presence was more for help with construction) but they sure camp close. As with almost every western I've ever seen, the bandits run the town through fear but like in the movies the town still functions. It's my experience with Wild West movies that they all have similar stories....... A once thriving town receives a visit from bandits who ride through on a regular basis to collect what is basically protection money, to visit the loose women steal food, kill the sherif etc... The town even though it's in trouble still functions, stage coaches still arrive with women from the city, there is always a women who has lost her husband to bt or the war (generally with a child) who the bandits torment, always a bar full of people who go quiet when the bandits enter, a bar man that never gets paid for his tequila etc etc.... The good guy turns up and kills the baddies and everyone is happy.... The only difference here is the bad guys out number the good guys and this is not a movie.....

With this in mind maybe LC is a town oppressed by the bandits, without lawmen the once thriving mine town now has to do what it can to survive. The local traders etc need the extra money to pay the bandits to stop their shops burning down or even worse being killed, unlike SS where things are more civilised more like a city of that era LC is a town outside the law rather than an outlaw town, thinking of it by these terms means food can be grown, though the bandits could steal it, gunsmiths could work, a community could exist and less reputable people like pawn shops almost could run their doings with the only difference being that a dispute could end in more than harsh words and a good day sir but a bullet and a box. I don't think I suggested that the bandits are the ones tending the herds, they are more likely to rustle the steeds and I don't think the bandits should work the shops or traders etc but they would extort a percentage from those businesses in a way that could never happen elsewhere. In the 2 events I have been to ( the first of many) I have got 1 grit and $180, the first time I worked securing the Pinkerton claim, the surveyor prospected and eventually a minor started, it cost more than we made and after 3 days I was back where I started, I have yet to draw my pistol and have lost at cards a few times, the idea of robbing the bank in SS is for a now doctor great fun, it's also impossible as this cannot occur in SS, I'm not dissing SS, when I'm there it's great but the limitations hamper what is seen and done, I come because I like everyone, it's great to be part of it but I also want to be a cowboy, get into scrapes, have to quick draw or settle a dispute 'the old fashioned way' but til now that would only happen if you accidentally ran into someone on the path, with many people staying in town trading and bartering it is then the injuns and bandits that have the run of the place, LC is meant to be an additional piece of the puzzle, a place like SS just with more oppression and less laws.

Ultimately it's not down to me but everyone, with the premise potentially in place that it is not a bandits town but more a town oppressed by bandits, they live near but not in as they are often out to take down a stage coach or rob someone and only return to steal and get laid and eat. A town much more like the ones in old movies, a town without law but not without hope, could it not then have legitimate businesses? Could it not have farms to produce food? And could in not the have awesome showdowns when someone tries to bring law to the lawless?

#25 DirtyDenn

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 03:19 PM

bit up the thread a bit but could the bar not keep peoples own bottles/beers/suspicouslookingbutalcoholfreebeverages  behind it and charge in game money to get them back or pour them?

 

i was paying the bar for beers of my own to be in keeping with the game like (wasn't my idea but i went with it)

 

 

i'll confess i'd missed the bit about buying ammo in game


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#26 Wladek

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 03:30 PM

We have tried to get people's drinks behind the bar, and many do bring it in and hand it over for that reason, because it adds to the atmosphere, but people still do just wander in with a drink in hand. And obviously they have to be charged - unless anyone knows of a bar/pub in the world which lets people bring their own drink and just hang around/sit down?

 

We even tried 'providing' the drink, but at the end of the weekend the honesty box was basically empty so we stopped that.

 

The best route, which all the bars and drinking establishments use, is that you pay $ for what you are drinking, we can keep it behind the bar for you, or you can bring it in. Ideally people should not need to be chased after for this, as we are busy enough, and eventually it will sink in to all.

 

We should prepare a side 'briefing' for the morning of how the establishments work.

 

And also mention that people should probably invest in a 'period-y' pint/wine tankard/glass.


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#27 DirtyDenn

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 04:12 PM


I agree and will hand over a daytime and eveningtime bottle to you at the beginning of the next game

And perhaps a little ale barrel

First thing I did before even the last one ended was arrange a tankard for myself
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#28 Wladek

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 04:31 PM

cool, it all adds to the feeling.

 

It is amazing how much enjoyment can be had from poring a glass in Victorian clothing.


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#29 Gadge

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 06:20 PM

here's my thoughts on the whole thing.

 

SS is possibly too safe as other have mentioned.  The fact that you can run in and avoid a fight is a neccesary evil.

 

Economy is important.

 

One of the main problems is that at the moment your weapons and equipment actually really reflect your wallet as a person rather than a character.  Sure you buy permits but if might be cooler if it was 'restarted' to a degree where you have to buy certain guns and the more effective something is the more it costs in game dollars.  For example at the moment a tanaka k98 and one of joshs hire VSRs with no iron sights both run off the same permit.   In a proper economy the tanaka should be top end costing a few hunred dollars, a winchester in the middle and the vst being a budget rifle.

 

On the subject of economy it would make sense to get the pelts and meat (and yes colonel we're respecting the deal, you'll get a regualr supply) from either 'mountain men' or 'injuns'.     evo and i feel this should be worked the same way as 'mining'... an 'injun' going to the 'hunting grounds' get x number of pelts and x carcases per hour.. these can be sold on or used to sustain the tribe (as we have no 'upkeep').

 

The best way in my mind of making this work in game is to have a new class 'trapper/scout'.   This class can work the hunting grounds well (lets say *anyone* can hunt but do it at half or a third of the effect of the scout class).     I also suggested to Josh that the 'scout' class could once per day 'track' another player or NPC.   So if some bandits raided las cortinas or SS then you could pay a scout to give you a general idea of where they were or to allow the reereees to give you advance warning of where they will be at a certain time.  Obviously we cant track the movements of every player but take for example the posioning of the well by the pinkertons (crazy as SS uses the same well, if it had worked it would have killed EVERYONE).. now in character we dont know it was them but using the 'track' skill , Josh could have said.. the trail leads to the pinkerton camp etc.

 

If las cortinas is a lawless town in 'backstory' terms who on earth would live there when its not like SS is over crowded.   I cant see it having an economy as such but it makes an ideal bandit hideout.  equally SS shouldnt be selling liquer to injuns but LC would be able to do this, any illegal deals could be done there.

 

A ghost town inhabited by outlaws makes more sense to me than *another* town when the one we have needs a lot of fleshing out.

 

I'd say

 

Injun village

 

provides; furs, meat, magic mushrooms, tracking skills, medical service

imports:  alcohol, firearms, clothes/luxuries

 

SS

Provides:  Medical service, alcohol, legal small arms, ranger/marsahll station, telegraph services, cloth/luxuries, coffee, sugar

Imports: meat, pelts, scouts, corn, gold

 

LC

Provides: Mercenaries, gold,  alcohol, corn, fencing of stolen goods

Imports, meat, stolen goods, coffee, sugar

 

I mean it needs working out but you need to make sure that like in the old 'blood royale' boardgame you need to have all the basic resources in your camp at game end in some quantity or hardship ensues.

 

 

At the moment as 'injuns' its fun but we only really have furs to sell or water to give access to, their isnt a game reason not to just mass up and wipe us out , whereas if we provided a 'scout' service or more efficient meat/pelt supplies then you've got a game reason to trade.



#30 DirtyDenn

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 06:34 PM

I was thinking something like that

Mostly as I wanted to use my 1911 lol, I'd happily save up $500 dollars for it
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#31 Gadge

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 06:50 PM

Yeah the gun rules change a lot.

 

I think the idea is to have stuff that is 'cowboys' in feel regardless of the actuall year of issue.

 

So while pump action shotguns existed for years before 1880 they are banned as they look and feel modern... i think 1911's go the same way as do mausers.

 

As has been mentioned in 'wastelander' the 'shop' has a lot of gunamn hire guns that anyone can 'buy' to use over the weekend from spinger pistols for 50quid to assault rifles for 300 quid but you can put your own stuff you cant afford yet into the shop and only you can buy it once you've made enough money.

 

So for example i might start the next flying lead only being able to afford a revolver but as 'gadge' i own a winchester underlever for example with a game value of $300...   i only have $50 to start with but once i've earned the cash I can buy my own rifle, only i can buy it as its' got a tag with my  name on...   i could altenratively 'buy' one of joshs VSR's for $150 in the meantime but so can anyone else as they are 'communal' and not tagged.

 

It just means that you have something to build up to and its quite good fun rather than starting off really tooled up.



#32 DirtyDenn

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 06:59 PM


To be honest I think 1911's would spoil it a bit anyway

But before I actually played in would have done anything to be allowed to use mine.
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#33 Doc Brown

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 07:43 PM

Gadge that all makes a lot of sense, the injuns photos I've seen looked awesome but I've not had a need to visit them, with the tracking/scout idea I would need to visit, the idea about the resetting weapon thing and the value of each weapon makes sense but realistically there isn't that much cash flying around is there?

#34 Heide

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 07:50 PM

I'm all in favour of contributing to the economy of the camp.   I always hand over $10 to drink my own booze in the saloon.  Our "upkeep" was what I thought went to simulate covering the cost of food?  Could not a portion of the revenue raised from upkeep go to paying the butcher, grocer, etc?  I myself have no other income than my (poor) salary, which has to pay for telegrams and hiring of help, and doesn't leave much for anything else.  Luckily, I'm not in the game to make the sought after total (well, not yet anyway, I may retire from the law business at some point).

 

Things like poisoned waterholes, bandit incursion, etc, should be dealt with by law enforcement but, it's hard to get anything done with just 2 peace officers.  It's usually down to vigilantism to deal with larger groups of offenders, which shouldn't happen.  Remember, there is an in game benefit to being in a properly formed posse!

 

As for La Cortina, I saw groups of masked men coming from it but, could do bugger all about it and, when I got within 50 metres of it, I was fired upon, so, I didn't bother trying to go there, as there were far too many people there to tangle with.  I can see why folks want an alternative lifestyle or experience in game but, to some of us, LC doesn't bring anything new to the table and, it's pointless going anywhere near it.  The last thing I want to see is two "rival" camps and, things turning into a wild west airsoft game.



#35 Doc Brown

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Posted 02 October 2013 - 11:04 PM

I can see the LC doesn't bring anything new to the table, when it's conception was discussed many months ago the idea of a new part of the story was exciting to those involved, passing characters on Saturday found employment being paid $5 each to help move silver birch, and cut firewood,Mather visitors joined the town for a drink and to exchange information about the whereabouts of a certain Gatling gun, or the location of a wanted man, even though it was still being built people came into the town remaining in character and the town was even assaulted late on Saturday by a sizable posse that injured 4 'bandits' . It functioned within the event, I doubt anyone who visited had the same experience as you but as a lawman you can probably see why that happened.
The fact that it I'm play' as it were only means that a dispute can be settled to old fashioned way. I agree that maybe the 'bandits' should live within the town as the author waddy Moore wrote When outlaw gangs were near, towns would raise a posse (like in the movies) to attempt to drive them away or capture them. Seeing that the need to combat the gunslingers was a growing business opportunity, Allan Pinkerton ordered his National Detective Agency, founded in 1850, to open branches out West, and they got into the business of pursuing and capturing outlaws. You could always use a telegram to the Pinkerton office to offer assistance or employ them.
Fortunately the light coated pinkertons have already requester a building for there detective agency, they would probably use the injuns to track and scout providing the injuns with income to buy booze from the same town where it isn't outlawed. These fund would probably then be used to purchase goods from SS creating income all round,

As to the bandits of whom I am not one I can see the attraction of LC as it is somewhere that anything can happen but if you felt unwelcome then under section 27of the judiciary act 1789 to obtain funds for your work in attending court and the ruling 'That a marshal shall be appointed in and for each district for a term of four years, but shall be removable from office at pleasure, whose duty it shall be to attend the district and circuit courts when sitting therein, and also the Supreme Court in the district in which that court shall sit. And to execute throughout the district, all lawful precepts directed to him, and issued under the authority of the United States, and he shall have the power to command all necessary assistance in the execution of his duty, and to appoint as shall be occasion, one or more deputies'. You can at no cost for a posse with whoever you chose ( under the guise of a federal order ) and hunt down the bandits, maybe paying injuns to track them and once cornered you could judge them in the center of SS for their crimes. LC isn't their to detract from your characters or to ruin your trading etc, it's not about making money to 'win' it's sole intention was to be a place thats more than just words. How many movies have you seen where the sherif or marshal is shot in the center of town infront of everyone, that can't happen down in SS, it can in LC, it probably did happen which is why it is lawless (without enforced laws) until it has a back story that's an unknown, for now I expect to have a weekday and weekend free coming up, if I speak to Steve and find out when I can get materials to site and work up there anyone is welcome to come and help build more and see what is there, though no game dollars will be paid this time

#36 Target

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 07:10 AM

Gadge has said what I think to a tee. The trade is the back bone to the game and needs to be at the forefront of the game, everything else is meat on the bone.

I'll get an update sorted soon guys;)

#37 DirtyDenn

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 09:45 AM

I'm all in favour of contributing to the economy of the camp.   I always hand over $10 to drink my own booze in the saloon.  Our "upkeep" was what I thought went to simulate covering the cost of food?  Could not a portion of the revenue raised from upkeep go to paying the butcher, grocer, etc?  I myself have no other income than my (poor) salary, which has to pay for telegrams and hiring of help, and doesn't leave much for anything else.  Luckily, I'm not in the game to make the sought after total (well, not yet anyway, I may retire from the law business at some point).

 

Things like poisoned waterholes, bandit incursion, etc, should be dealt with by law enforcement but, it's hard to get anything done with just 2 peace officers.  It's usually down to vigilantism to deal with larger groups of offenders, which shouldn't happen.  Remember, there is an in game benefit to being in a properly formed posse!

 

As for La Cortina, I saw groups of masked men coming from it but, could do bugger all about it and, when I got within 50 metres of it, I was fired upon, so, I didn't bother trying to go there, as there were far too many people there to tangle with.  I can see why folks want an alternative lifestyle or experience in game but, to some of us, LC doesn't bring anything new to the table and, it's pointless going anywhere near it.  The last thing I want to see is two "rival" camps and, things turning into a wild west airsoft game.

 

 

i knida thought the attack on LC was a formed posse at the time, now i look back i rememeber it was mr Paris offering $25 which i now realise isn't the same thing as a duly formed posse!


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#38 Heide

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 11:05 AM

Doc, I do see your point but, how do the people who opened up on a lone person, whom they wouldn't even have known was a Marshall at the time, know that I wasn't coming to parley or talk business?  Don't forget that all of the famous lawmen (including Earp) walked a very thin line sometimes between law and lawlessness!  I always try to stay in character and am not suicidal enough to run in, all guns blazing, or look for a Pale Rider type shootout.  Perhaps those who opened up for no reason should be thinking that the gunning down of a federal Marshall would have far reaching consequences?  Negotiation and interaction are what makes this game interesting for me, not gun play and, negotiation and interaction are the things that get deals done, as promises made under the threat of violence are rarely kept. Uneasy truces and deals that make for strange bed fellows are more stimulating to roleplay than just shooting holes in people without hearing what they have to say.   I hope that people can bear this in mind if I decide to approach LC again.



#39 Itininerant Airsofter

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 11:37 AM

Just out of interest, when were you shot upon? The only time I was aware shots being fired in anger at LC, was when we (the peaceble builders) got anihilated by the Posse (vile,nastey,hired killers) last thing Sat.

 

There was however a couple of times when we were playing with hops/bb weights.Could it have been one of these times? If so, I'm really sorry, a visit from the Marshall would have been great!



#40 Heide

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Posted 03 October 2013 - 11:53 AM

Just out of interest, when were you shot upon? The only time I was aware shots being fired in anger at LC, was when we (the peaceble builders) got anihilated by the Posse (vile,nastey,hired killers) last thing Sat.

 

There was however a couple of times when we were playing with hops/bb weights.Could it have been one of these times? If so, I'm really sorry, a visit from the Marshall would have been great!

 

I was approaching from the Jameson mine.  My idea was that if I was on high ground and obviously silhouetted, it would be obvious that I wasn't a threat.  I wasn't even carrying a rifle and, my pistol was holstered.  A shot went right past my head, so, I got out pretty sharpish, as I saw lots of figures flitting about in the trees. Myself and the town Marshall also tried approaching on sunday but, saw people gathering on the hill and thought better of it but, after you had been attacked by vigilantes the day before, I don't blame you for being jumpy that time!






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